Life in a MM HF
Hi guys, recently accepted an offer from a top MM HF (think Citadel /P72/MLP). Would like to check on a few things from any of the veterans who have been in this field for a long time.
1) Understand that in such MM pods, culture is typically driven by teams led by individual PMs and may vary across teams. On a consensus though, how would the culture in each team be like? Would it be very individualistic and people generally work in silo?
2) Turnover for analysts. Understand that there is a drawdown limit, and once that limit is breached, the whole team gets laid off . Would like to clarify if this means even the analysts are laid off, or will they get put into different teams under other PMs?
3) Have read some posts in this sub-forum where some senior analysts gets a portion of the book from their PM. How senior do you have to be within the team to get such a responsibility?
Would really appreciate any inputs, thanks!
Comments ( 20 )
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I worked at Citadel and turnover for analysts was quite high
Hi, are you able to go into more details? Voluntary/involuntary? If involuntary, what was the main reasons for analysts leaving? And are you able to shed some light on the average turnover for analysts? (Say 1/2 years or longer, shorter, etc.) Thanks!
What kind of hours / is it stressful?
Probably one of, if not the most stressful gig in finance given how high churn is and how low job security is. Hours are very pod dependent but 60-80 (during earnings) seems like a reasonable estimate.
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Learn moreI would say closer to 70-80 for analysts. I comfortably work 60 myself.
Turnover is high. Some firms will place you elsewhere. Others will not.
I know many analysts who have covered (for example) financials and healthcare and something else over the course of 4-5 years.
Surprised you accepted an offer before knowing all the above questions
Hey man, I've gotten some sense check from friends and seniors in order to make a decision. However, the reason I'm asking here is also to see if there's some form of consensus or varying answers. Hope that clears!
Very anecdotal, but I know of some people that have been in the same pod/firm for quite some time (not as high turnover as others might say) but I'm sure that's not the norm.
Best of luck in the role!
The reality of the situation for some of us non-gold-plated resumes is, you take what you get for the first one. I wanted a SM and was indoctrinated anti-MM. Did not get any SM and then a 'top' MM . PM quit and team disbanded by November - it was a good experience & the foot in the door is worth a lot of u love stockpicking and aren't swatting 10 glorious funds off ur shoulder as a 1yr banker.
i thought 60 hours was standard at MM HF? not 70-80
1) There is no "firm-wide" culture. The culture is 100% linked to the individual pod you work in.
2) Some of the MMs monitor individual analyst performance to (i) look for future PMs, and (ii) see who is actually adding value. A lot of PM's want to hire their own analysts and not have a random guy assigned to them, so you have the risk that if your pod blows up you're out of a job.
3) A senior analyst may get a sleave, which is an allocation of capital within the pod. Typically you negotiate a pay-out equation with your PM on your sleave.
What's the portfolio turnover typically?
I don't work at one of the places you've mentioned but know a lot about them. PMs are basically highly paid widgets and the big MMs are very heartless/systematic with their capital cuts and terminations. They don't give a fuck about you or your price targets. A lot of PMs are outrunning "the tap" and living their lives from bonus to bonus…
Culture is pod dependent but these guys don't even want much interaction between pods. Also, they care about idea velocity and just want a high sharpe so once you realize something like 5% on an idea, they make you cut risk and find the next one… you don't have much of a chance to be a real investor. The drawdown rules and center books turn everyone into a trader and dudes that did well historically can struggle in those seats.
I think you should take the seat and it'll be good experience. Make sure you network with the other pod shops (especially in your sector) and have a strong reputation with the sell side . You want to do some career cushioning and have a list of ppl to call once the day comes.
Whoever threw MS can suuuuuck it. Maybe correct me if I'm wrong?
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